Editor's note: Philip J. Berg, former deputy attorney general of Pennsylvania and an activist attorney who brought a lawsuit challenging the eligibility of Barack Obama to become president of the United States, has written the following reply to Jamie Freeze's Dec. 22 RenewAmerica article "Facts are stubborn things: Obama is a natural-born citizen."
Jamie Freeze, a law student, has arrogantly called any of us who question Soetoro/Obama's citizenship status and constitutional eligibility to serve as U.S. President — a constitutional right of ours, of course — incompetent idiots.
Ms. Freeze, however, may want to continue her education. Part of being a lawyer, a very important part, is being able to comprehend what you read and to cite the correct law to collaborate it, something Ms. Freeze has clearly failed to do.
Jamie Freeze received battlefield experience in the war of ideology while attending the University of North Carolina at Greensboro (aka UNC-Gomorrah).
While earning a bachelor's degree in political science and history, she served as Vice President of the College Republicans and was the lone conservative opinion columnist for The Carolinian, UNCG's student newspaper.
After surviving college without becoming a liberal, she graduated in 2009 and is currently working toward a law degree at Regent University. You can contact Jamie at:
j.l.freeze@juno.com
In her schoolgirlish, wide-eyed fashion she also wrote....
"I don't understand how a Christian can be a Republican"
Phil Berg says:
I will respond below to Ms. Freeze's allegations. My responses are in Bold Italic. I also want to make very clear to all readers that none of the eligibility cases have been heard, litigated, or dismissed based on the law pertaining to any of the issues raised. Instead, the eligibility cases have been dismissed on the basis of "STANDING" only.
Alan note: as can be seen in an article below this one, tenacious Attorney Orly Taitz has filed for a move of venue for this very reason.
This type of thing by Ms. Freeze is what gives folks the WRONG information and confuses them. It is a deception by Ms. Freeze (as a law student, I hope her professors teach her how to properly, honestly, and with integrity investigate, research the laws, properly cite the laws, and argue issues before her).
Otherwise, she will be unable to do her clients — when that time comes, assuming she passes the bar — justice.
(Alan: Without perjuring them or herself)
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/freeze/091222
December 22, 2009
Facts are stubborn things: Obama is a natural-born citizen
By Jamie Freeze
I never will forget meeting former North Carolina State Senator Hugh Webster my senior year of high school. He came to my school and had lunch with the seniors. As he sat down beside me, I asked him to tell me what he most loved and hated about being in Raleigh. I don't remember what he most loved, but I'll never forget what he most hated. In the words of Mr. Webster, "I don't deal well with incompetent people."
Ms. Freeze, unfortunately, is showing her "INCOMPETENCE," as Ms. Freeze would call it, but I feel "IGNORANCE" is the more appropriate word, as outlined below.
At that point, I knew Mr. Webster and I were kindred spirits. I too don't deal well with incompetent people. As a matter of fact, I go out of my way to avoid them, but when dealing with them is inevitable, I can't help but point out their incompetencies. As a law student, I am being trained to be meticulous, well-reasoned, and intelligent.
After my final exam grades come back, we'll see how well I'm doing. But that aside, I feel that I have been too longsuffering in letting the Birther Movement receive simply a few caustic remarks and jabs from me. It's time for me to call a spade a spade.
Here goes: If you believe that President Obama is NOT a natural-born citizen, then you are an incompetent idiot who is probably watching Glenn Beck while wearing a tin-foil hat. You probably think Obama's a Muslim too.
Alan Note: absolutely yes to both!
Our lawsuits have nothing to do with Soetoro/Obama's religion, they never have. Ms. Freeze seems to have lost a very important part of her education. We as people are entitled to redress, and we as people are entitled to ask questions, especially of our elected officials. Incompetent idiot?
It appears that Ms. Freeze's law school has taught her that when you cannot counter something, call the opposing party names. That is not what I was taught in school. I do not see one shred of evidence that supports Ms. Freeze's position. Ms. Freeze obviously forgot about Barry Soetoro's name:
Did she locate where he legally changed his name to Barack H. Obama?
It is fraud to run for and serve as President under an "alias" name.
What about Soetoro/Obama's Indonesian citizenship? We have the school record, which Soetoro/Obama has admitted too.
If you are still reading (and not firing off angry emails), then allow me to offer you factual proof that Obama is a natural-born citizen who satisfies the constitutional requirements for Commander-in-Chief.
My argument is two-fold:
1. Obama was born in Hawaii (a U.S. state for my incompetent readers).
2. Obama satisfies the requirements found in the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, which defines natural-born citizens.
Where is the factual proof? Ms. Freeze apparently forgot to attach it.
What does Ms. Freeze have to back up the assertion that Soetoro/Obama was born in Hawaii?
We have been unable to obtain verification of that — no long form birth certificate, only an image that has been deemed a forgery. Despite this, what about his Indonesian citizenship? Had Ms. Freeze read our briefs, and retained the information, she would have seen that all we do is talk about the Nationality Act of 1940, revised in 1952.
1. Obama was born in Hawaii. Hawaii joined the Union in 1959. Barack Obama was born in 1961. Do the math. It works. Ok, so perhaps that argument is a bit over-simplified, but that is because I find the birth certificate question so ridiculous.
The President released his birth certificate (which was verified by the Hawaii Health Department) yet conspiracy theorists refuse to see logic. "Big bad Obama must be hiding something. That certificate isn't the long form. What's he hiding?" What the naysayers fail to realize is that in 1961 the standard Hawaiian birth certificate was...wait for it...exactly the same length as Obama's!
The Hawaiian Health Department has said this, but as conspiracy theorists point out, they must be covering for Obama. Despite the facts, folks say that even if he was born in Hawaii, he is not a natural born citizen because his father was Kenyan. However, even if Obama was born on the moon, he would still be a natural born citizen under the Immigration and Nationality Act.
First, the "long version" birth certificate we are asking for has nothing do to with the size of the document itself, instead it has to do with the information on the document.
We have never claimed Hawaii was not a state of the Union, so this has nothing to do with the questions we are seeking answers too. Soetoro/Obama released two (2) forged images of a Certification of Live Birth, claiming it to be his birth certificate.
The Hawaii Health Department has NEVER verified the images placed on the internet.
Law 101: No agency or person can look at an online image and state the document came from their agency or location, unless the person making such statement was the one who personally printed the document in question (Soetoro/Obama's Certification of Live Birth in this case) and handed it to Soetoro/Obama and can prove it is in fact the same document.
In Soetoro/Obama's case, his campaign office stated they mailed the application for his Certification of Live Birth to Hawaii and received this supposed document back from Hawaii. However, on the date that Soetoro/Obama would have signed it, Soetoro/Obama was traveling campaigning.
We are not disputing the length of Soetoro/Obama's Certification of Live Birth. We have copies of others' actual Certificate of Live births from the same time period. These are two (2) completely different documents.
Soetoro/Obama has never released a hard copy of any type of Certification of Live Birth or Certificate of Live Birth to anyone other than Factcheck.org, which is part of Annenberg and, yes, who Soetoro/Obama has close ties with.
I am wondering what Ms. Freeze is basing her unsubstantiated statements on. Maybe she will enlighten us.
We are not questioning the British father, as we are well aware of the fact that if Soetoro/Obama was born on U.S. soil, which we do not believe, he would in fact be a U.S. "natural born" citizen.
However, in fairness to Ms. Freeze, others have questioned the British citizenship of the father and claimed that even if Soetoro/Obama was born on U.S. soil, he would not be a "natural born" U.S. citizen due to his father's foreign citizenship status.
I'm going to ask again, what about Soetoro/Obama's legal name and his Indonesian citizenship status?
Ms. Freeze fails to address these very important issues. We have been unable to locate any legal documentation legally changing Soetoro's name back to Barack H. Obama; where Soetoro/Obama relinquished his Indonesian citizenship; and/or where Soetoro/Obama reclaimed any U.S. citizenship status he may have once held. Again, hopefully Ms. Freeze will enlighten us.
2. Obama is a natural born citizen. In Scales v. INS, 232 F.3d 1159 (2000), we have a clear definition of what natural born citizenship is. Scales' father was an American serviceman stationed in the Philippines where he met Scales' mother. They married despite the fact that Scales' mother was pregnant with him at the time. In all probability, the court said, Scales was a product of his mother's previous relationship.
However, he was born after Mr. Scales married his mother, and he was treated as Scales' son. Later, Scales was facing deportation because of an aggravated felony involving drugs. He challenged his deportation saying he was a natural born citizen. The court determined that natural born citizenship depends on the statute in effect at the time of the child's birth.
Since Scales was born in 1977, he was a natural born citizen because a "person shall be a national and citizen of the United States at birth who is born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years."
Id. at 1169; see 8 U.S.C. §1401(a)(7) (1976). Therefore, Scales was a natural born citizen despite the following: having been born in a foreign country, having been born to a non-citizen, having his American father later deny paternity (and prove non-paternity), and having claimed to be a citizen of the Philippines. Sounds like it is difficult to get rid of natural born citizenship. Let's examine Barack Obama's citizenship.
I would first like to note that Scales v. INS, 232 F.3d 1159 (2000) is not exactly on point, as neither of Soetoro/Obama's parents were in the U.S. military; however, it does outline some of the issues we present.
Some more appropriate cases are United States of America v. Cervantes-Nava, 281 F.3d 501 (2002), Drozd v. I.N.S., 155 F.3d 81, 85-88 (2d Cir.1998), Solis-Espinoza v. Gonzales, 401 F.3d 1090 (9th Cir. 2005). And, if Ms. Freeze would have read and retained what is in our briefs, she would have seen the laws we used.
We believe Soetoro/Obama was born in Kenya, contrary to Ms. Freeze's beliefs, and that Soetoro/Obama's mother was not old enough to confer U.S. "natural born" citizenship status to Soetoro/Obama.
Moreover, neither of Soetoro/Obama's parents were in the U.S. military at the time of Soetoro/Obama's birth, therefore her whole argument above, which was meant to mislead people and which is very ignorant for a law student, does not pertain.
Alan note: trying to show off her bias and to present "brilliant legal skills" (in her own mind) Ms. Freeze ends up, as the expression goes, chewing shoe leather of the foot she pushed into her own mouth
Ms. Freeze also forgets to mention that the Nationality Act was revised in 1986 with a proviso regarding active military.
The only part of the code that was retroactive was the proviso regarding military status, nothing else.
But again, neither of Seotoro/Obama's parents were in the U.S. military.
Moreover, contrary to Scales, Soetoro/Obama's father admitted paternity, and the parents were married in Hawaii prior to Soetoro/Obama's birth.
Ms. Freeze has done nothing more than attempt to misapply the laws.
And once again, Ms. Freeze also fails to address the legal name of Soetoro/Obama or Soetoro/Obama's Indonesian citizenship.
Obama's citizenship will be determined under the 1952 version of the Immigration and Nationality Act since he was born in 1961 and the Act wasn't updated again until 1966. According to § 301(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (66 Stat. 235), "a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person [is a natural born citizen]."
According to § 305 of the same statute, any person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900 was to be considered a natural born citizen. Obama's mother was a citizen of the United States, and his father was a citizen of Kenya. They were married six months before Obama was born. There is no doubt that Obama's mother resided in the United States or its possessions for at least one year prior to Obama's birth.
Therefore, Obama can't be anything other than a natural born citizen. Combine this detail with his birth in an American State, you have a certified natural born citizen.
Ms. Freeze's 1966 law fails and she completely contradicts herself.
The law that is applied is the law in effect at the time of the birth — in Soetoro/Obama's case, the Nationality Act of 1940, revised 1952. See Marquez-Marquez a/k/a Moreno v. Gonzales, 455 F. 3d 548 (5th Cir. 2006), Runnett v. Shultz, 901 F.2d 782, 783 (9th Cir.1990).
Law in 1966 does not apply, unless Ms. Freeze can show me where it states it is retroactive, which she CANNOT.
We are not disputing that Hawaii was a state, and we are not disputing that if in fact Soetoro/Obama was born in Hawaii, he would be a U.S. "natural born" citizen.
(Alan note: Other attorneys dispute this understanding of the law as the sole factor for natural born citizenship and introduce the nationality of the parents at the time of birth as a decisive factor)
Further, Kenya is not an outlying possession of the U.S.
The law used by Ms. Freeze once again does not pertain to the issues outlined in our cases;
does not apply to Soetoro/Obama's birth in Kenya;
fails to address Soetoro/Obama's legal name;
and fails to address Soetoro/Obama's Indonesian citizenship.
Moreover, even if the 1966 version applied, which is does NOT, Soetoro/Obama's mother was not present residing in the U.S. for a continuous year prior to Soetoro/Obama's birth. We believe Soetoro/Obama's mother was residing in Kenya and in fact gave birth to Soetoro/Obama in Kenya.
Important issues left out by Ms. Freeze in attempt to confuse the reader is:
the fact Soetoro/Obama became Barry Soetoro with an Indonesian Citizenship.
No records have been located legally changing Barry Soetoro's name back to Barack H. Obama.
No records have been located showing Soetoro/Obama relinquished his Indonesian citizenship, which was a requirement of Indonesia and outlined in their laws (Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship status) and reclaiming any U.S. citizenship status he may have once held.
Thus, Soetoro/Obama is still Barry Soetoro an Indonesian Citizen.
One last question I have for Ms. Freeze: If in fact Soetoro/Obama was a U.S. "natural born" citizen and eligible to serve as our United States President, why in the world would he spend in excess of a million dollars litigating these cases instead of just proving his citizenship status?
I'm curious to see how Ms. Freeze would respond. We know the answer, because Soetoro/Obama can't.
Source: http://obamacrimes.com/?p=340
6 comments:
Re: "we as people are entitled to ask questions, especially of our elected officials."
Of course we do. But they also have the right not to answer.
This is particularly true when the people who ask the question are not impartial but are people who call the elected official names. And, it is particularly true when some of those asking questions claim things that are lies such as Pakistan being on a no-travel list in 1981, when it wasn't, or that Obama's Kenyan grandmother said that he was born in Kenya, when you can hear her say "America, Hawaii" after the question "whereabouts was he born?" , or who list an "affidavit" from a man who will not give his real name as an "affidavit."
Moreover, this is not a large group of people but a very small group of people. If it were large, congressmen and senators would be calling for investigations.
Re: "Ms. Freeze obviously forgot about Barry Soetoro’s name; Did she locate where he legally changed his name to Barack H. Obama?"
This is another form of a lie. We know that he used the name Barry Soetoro. People can use their stepfather's name without either changing their name or being adopted. I had a Chinese name when I lived in Asia; I didn't have to change my name legally. So, unless you have evidence that he legally changed his name from Obama, you are deliberately misleading by asking whether he changed his name to Obama. You have absolutely no evidence that Obama changed his name legally or was adopted except for an application to elementary school, which was not a signed document. The lie is the implication that you know certainly that Obama changed his name legally, when you don't.
Re: "We have the School Record which Soetoro/Obama has admitted too (sic, should be "to".)"
This is the same unsigned application for a private elementary school. It does no prove that Obama was a citizen of Indonesia. It appears to shown only that Obama's parents CLAIMED that he was a citizen of Indonesia on that unsigned form. Do parents lie from time to time to get their kids into the right school? Of course they do.
Both the US State Department in a legal filing, and the Indonesian government via its embassy in Washington have said that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia. (http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6). You will see that it repeatedly denies that Obama was an Indonesian citizen or was adopted.
Indonesia will tell anyone who will ask. I was one. You can check too. Here is the telephone number of the Indonesian Embassy in Washington ((202) 775-5200)
Re: Where is the factual proof? Ms. Freeze apparently forgot to attach it. What does Ms. Freeze have to back up that Soetoro/Obama was born in Hawaii?
I will cite the facts. First there is the Certification of Live Birth itself, which only two guys who will not give their real names or technical background have claimed to be forged, and which has not been challenged by the state of Hawaii, or the FBI, or McCain. Then, there is the fact that the officials in Hawaii have repeatedly said that the facts in the files show that Obama was born in Hawaii, and why should they (members of a Republican governor's administration) lie about this critical fact.
To be sure, they have not confirmed that the document is authentic. But they have not said that it was not authentic either. But they have said, at least twice, in clear words, that the facts in the file show that Obama was born in Hawaii.
Some have said that they doubt that the officials said that Obama was born in Hawaii. But they did.
Quotes:
“Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?
“Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.”
End quotes (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)
Notice that this is a flat statement. It does not hedge by saying that the document MAY show. It says that the statement of Fukino says that the document shows. This statement does not allow wiggle rooom that there are many different kinds of birth certificates or that, as alleged, a person could obtain a Hawaii birth certificate with the statement of one parent and no confirmation of place of birth. It simply says YES, that the vital records that Fukino has personally seen MEAN that Obama was born in Hawaii.
At this point I suspect that you may say that the Certification is not a legal birth certificate. But it is. It is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and it is the only one that Hawaii sends out. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certifiate ( (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html).) The Certification is accepted by all the departments of Hawaii as proof of birth in Hawaii (Yes, including DHHL; I checked.), and it is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department. In addition to the Certification and the repeated confirmations of the officials, there is this witness, who recalls being told of Obama's birth in Hawaii in 1961 (because she wrote about the unusual event of a child being born to a woman named Stanley to her father, also named Stanley) (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html)
Re: "what about his Indonesian Citizenship?"
Obama was never an Indonesian citizen as both the US State Department and the Indonesian government have said.
Re: "the “long version” birth certificate we are asking for"
You are asking Obama for it. He doesn't have it. You are not asking Hawaii for it, and Hawaii does have it but refuses to release it.
It refuses to release it, not because Obama asks that it not be released, but because it does not release the original for anyone, and it sees no reason to make an exception in this case (especially after repeatedly confirming that the facts on the Certification reflect the facts in the file).
If you and others were to press Hawaii to change its mind and release the original, it would show exactly what the authorities in Hawaii and the witness have said, that Obama was born in Hawaii. And there is not a shred of evidence that Obama was born anywhere else than Hawaii. The National Review commented: “The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff.”
Re: "released two (2) forged images of a Certification of Live Birth...."
In order to see the Certification there has to be images, of course. The images were NOT forged. Only two guys, who will not give their real names and who will not give their training as forensic experts claim that it was forged. The officials have repeatedly confirmed the facts on the document. They have not confirmed the image, quite properly because they are not document experts and because an image can be manipulated. But they have not said that it is false either, and they have repeatedly confirmed the fact on it. What would be the point in forging a document if you can get one (and in fact did get one) that says the same thing simply by applying for it? NO official and no opponent of Obama ever said that the document was forged. The officials confirm the facts on it. That is what counts.
RE: "Soetoro/Obama has never released a hard copy of any type of Certification of Live Birth or Certificate of Live Birth to anyone other than Factcheck.org."
He released it to both Factcheck and Politifact. Whom did McCain or George Bush release their birth certificates to?
Re: "others have questioned the British citizenship of the father and claimed that even if Soetoro/Obama was born on U.S. soil he would not be a “natural born” U.S. citizen due to his father’s foreign citizenship status."
You are right and they are wrong. Since Obama was born in Hawaii, he is a Natural Born Citizen. The original meaning of Natural Born was simply "born in the country," and dual nationality has no effect on it. No foreign law can affect the fact that someone was born in the USA, and no foreign law can take away the fact that under our law someone who is born in the USA legally must have sole allegiance to the USA. The other country naturally disagrees, but it is our law that we are discussing, and it is our law that applies. No foreign law can affect the US laws on allegiance and Natural Birth, so Dual Nationality does not affect.
Re: "Soetoro/Obama’s legal name and his Indonesian Citizenship status? "
Obama never legally changed his name, and he was never an Indonesian citizen.
Re: "We believe Soetoro/Obama was born in Kenya.."
If Obama were born in Kenya, I would agree that he is not Natural Born. But he wasn't born in Kenya. HIs grandmother never said that he was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii. Also, if he were born in Kenya, he would have needed a US travel document to get to the USA, such as a US visa on a foreign passport (in this case a British passport) or an amendment to his mother's US passport while she was in Kenya to include him. Without either of those, how could his family take him from Kenya to the USA? We would not have allowed him to enter the country. If there had been such a document, the application for it would have been recorded and retained in the files of the US State Department, which was under the Republicans until last January. Nothing has been found.
In addition to the absence of proof that Obama was born in Kenya or traveled from Kenya to the USA in 1961 (or that his mother traveled to Kenya in 1961, which would have been unlikely because Yellow Fever was still endemic at the time), there is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the repeated confirmation of the two officials and the witness who was told of his birth in Hawaii, all of which show that he was born in Hawaii.
Re: "we are not disputing if in fact Soetoro/Obama was born in Hawaii he would be a U.S. “natural born” citizen."
GOOD, because he was born in Hawaii.
Re: "We believe Soetoro/Obama’s mother was residing in Kenya."
Absurd. Yellow fever was rampant. Travel to Kenya from Hawaii was expensive and there were no direct flights, and planes were poorly pressurized. How could he get from Kenya to the USA without a US travel document? His Kenyan grandmother says that he was born in Hawaii. So do the officials and the witness.
Re: "The fact Soetoro/Obama became Barry Soetoro an Indonesian Citizenship."
He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the US State Department and Indonesian government have said.
Re: " No records have been located legally changing Barry Soetoro’s name back to Barack H. Obama. "
No documents have been found legally changing Obama's name to Soetoro.
Re: "No records have been located showing Soetoro/Obama relinquished his Indonesain citizenship, which was a requirement of Indonesia and outlined in their laws (Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship status)."
Since he was never an Indonesian citizen, he did not have to relinquish it.
Re: "why in the world would he spend in excess of a Million Dollars litigating these cases instead of just proving his citizenship status? "
Because the cases were not to make him show facts, they were to prevent him from being president. All the cases before the election, and those were by far the bulk of all the cases, tried to stop the election. Most of the cases after the election were to stop the Electoral College from voting, stop Congress from certifying the election or stop the Inauguration. There has never been a case against Obama that simply asked for his birth certificate or for documents. He has, by the way, shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii.
A small point on fighting cases. If you are sued and do not fight, you lose the case. Thus if Obama did not fight a case that tried to stop the election, the election would have been stopped. That accounts for by far most of the million spent.
stauss - are you copy/pasting from someone or posting under different names on other blogs?
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